Gods Almighty
here is a long simulated conversation i found on the net.... it was interesting... but i made my own ... ahem... contribution to it... and yes.. the last whole part was written by none other than.... Yours Truly..
An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem science has with God, The Almighty. He asks one of his new Christian students to stand and.....
Professor: You are a Christian, aren't you, son?
Student : Yes, sir.
Prof: So you believe in God?
Student : Absolutely, sir.
Prof: Is God good?
Student : Sure.
Prof: Is God all-powerful?
Student : Yes.
Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't. How is this God good then? Hmm?
(Student is silent.)
Prof: You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?
Student :Yes.
Prof: Is Satan good?
Student : No.
Prof: Where does Satan come from?
Student : From... God...
Prof: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?
Student : Yes.
Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything. Correct?
Student : Yes.
Prof: So who created evil?
(Student does not answer.)
Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness?
All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they?
Student :Yes, sir.
Prof: So, who created them?
(Student has no answer.)
Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God?
Student: No, sir.
Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God?
Student : No , sir.
Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?
Student : No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.
Prof: Yet you still believe in Him?
Student : Yes.
Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?
Student : Nothing. I only have my faith.
Prof: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has.
Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat?
Prof: Yes.
Student : And is there such a thing as cold?
Prof: Yes.
Student : No sir. There isn't.
(The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)
Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.
(There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.)
Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?
Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness?
Student : You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light. But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't. If it were you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?
Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man?
Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.
Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how?
Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?
Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.
Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?
(The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going.)
Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?
(The class is in uproar.)
Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain?
(The class breaks out into laughter.)
Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?
(The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable.)
Prof: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son.
Student : That is it sir.. The link between man & god is FAITH. That is all that keeps things moving & alive.
**
The Omen stands up....
Omen : if i had hit you once when you came close to me, 2 years ago.... would you mind standing beside me?
Student : No.. it was long ago
Omen :if i hit you every time you come close to me and repeated this 40 times.... will you come close to me?
Student : No
Omen : Do you believe in evolution?
(Student looks uncomfortable)
Student : ....... No
Omen : then why does your behaviour evolve? why does it change with respect to the situation? is God guiding your behaviour or are my fists guiding it?
(Student is silent... the class is silent again)
Omen : Yes....i HAVE observed evolution with my own eyes... when a normal rat is put in pitch black darkness for 2 years and then taken out.. it is effectively blind... when a person eats antibiotics, many bacteria in his intestines die and he suffers from upset stomach... the body grew used to (evolved to) accomodate the bacteria and to use it... the same bacteria in another animal can make it ill.. or even kill it...
(Professor nods approvingly)
Omen : Does Darkness exist?.. hmm?
Student : No it does not.. i just proved that... it is the absence of light.
Omen : What is Vacuum?
Student : (falters) Nothingness.......
Omen : how about 'the absence of matter'?......would you mind if i exposed you to total Vacuum... since you obviously dont believe in things which dont exist?
(Student is silent... the class grins)
Omen : does the fact that vacuum is Nothing.... change the fact that it has intense physical properties?
Student : (quietly) No...
Omen : Does the fact that darkness 'not exist' (as you claim)... mean that it does not affect the eyesight of the rat?
Student : No.....
Omen : The Absence of something which DOES exist, lends to it a presence of its own... which means that it may not be anything tangible.. but if the 'presence' of the 'existing object' decreases or goes away.... it WILL be detected... YOU will be able to feel/hear/see/taste/smell this in SOME way or another... and can you feel something that doesnt exist?
Student : No......
Omen : ... which means that any absence of a body/property can be classified as something which can be detected and thus gives it the right to nomenclature... (i.e.- you can name such a state of absence)....such as your bold exclamations of super-heat, white-heat, low-heat........ and NO-heat.... The argument is limited by the language we speak in.... and English has just created a word for no-heat.... or low-heat... on a relative scale... just like the scale YOU used... degrees fahrenheit... is completely relative... cold could correspond to 30°F on your scale... colder could correspont to 0°F on your scale... so on.... do you have any argument against that??
(Student is silent... the class waits..)
Omen : But does your god have either presence OR absence??? Can you feel/hear/see/taste/smell when he turns away? when he decreases or goes away? or can you feel/../../../.. his presence in any tangble way that specifies that it is god that your sense organs percieve?
Student (boldly) : i can see God when i see spring... i smell him in the flowers... i hear him in the birds songs... i taste him in the fresh-water spring... i feel him when i touch the damp soil... and in the cold harsh winters... i can feel the absence of all those things... now tell me does God exist?
Omen (smiling simply) : Art thou a Pagan?
Student (aghast) : What!!? I am a Christian!!!
Omen (still smiling) : do you know that nature worship is a Pagan trait? an early form of the worship of Science in all its aspects... the chemicals that stimulate your sense organs of smell and taste... the subtle physics of waves - for sound and light... and the presence of Matter to touch.... it has nothing to do with Faith whatsoever... it is instead, the quest to reveal the workings of the most complex biomachineries that we can find... our own ecosystem... and our universe... not by pointing to beings that do not exist or have any effect whatsoever... but to physics, chemistry, mathematics and biology working together.
(the class breaks into applause)
Omen : God, my friend, is Your creation.... not the other way around.... you create him the way a lonely child makes up imaginary playmates.... and Your God is totally different from someone else's god... they are tailored to your own needs... and the reason God doesnt exist Even if EVERY man has Faith... is because your god can never be the same as someone else's god... and is true to you and you alone...
Professor : Faith is a matter of how seriously you take your 'imaginary friend'... when people start having visions of "god" talking to them in their dreams... i would say they are bordering schizophrenia where they cannot distingush the border between their 'imaginary' and 'real' worlds.
(Student walks out of class)
Professor : and so with Omen's help... we have established that Faith IS a problem for science.... as we could see from the young man there who doesnt really like the idea of worshipping nature and the physical world... but an imaginary "God" instead. Thank you my class... see you tomorrow at noon!
ah.. i should write literary flame-wars.... but then the church would burn all my books anyway....
"Religion is an archaic form of government and will always be a tool to control and govern....
and as in most governments... corruption is as common as bacteria.........
and it should be assumed as part of the deal" ~ discourses of the Hellspawn
An atheist professor of philosophy speaks to his class on the problem science has with God, The Almighty. He asks one of his new Christian students to stand and.....
Professor: You are a Christian, aren't you, son?
Student : Yes, sir.
Prof: So you believe in God?
Student : Absolutely, sir.
Prof: Is God good?
Student : Sure.
Prof: Is God all-powerful?
Student : Yes.
Prof: My brother died of cancer even though he prayed to God to heal him. Most of us would attempt to help others who are ill. But God didn't. How is this God good then? Hmm?
(Student is silent.)
Prof: You can't answer, can you? Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?
Student :Yes.
Prof: Is Satan good?
Student : No.
Prof: Where does Satan come from?
Student : From... God...
Prof: That's right. Tell me son, is there evil in this world?
Student : Yes.
Prof: Evil is everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything. Correct?
Student : Yes.
Prof: So who created evil?
(Student does not answer.)
Prof: Is there sickness? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness?
All these terrible things exist in the world, don't they?
Student :Yes, sir.
Prof: So, who created them?
(Student has no answer.)
Prof: Science says you have 5 senses you use to identify and observe the world around you. Tell me, son...Have you ever seen God?
Student: No, sir.
Prof: Tell us if you have ever heard your God?
Student : No , sir.
Prof: Have you ever felt your God, tasted your God, smelt your God? Have you ever had any sensory perception of God for that matter?
Student : No, sir. I'm afraid I haven't.
Prof: Yet you still believe in Him?
Student : Yes.
Prof: According to empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol, science says your GOD doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son?
Student : Nothing. I only have my faith.
Prof: Yes. Faith. And that is the problem science has.
Student : Professor, is there such a thing as heat?
Prof: Yes.
Student : And is there such a thing as cold?
Prof: Yes.
Student : No sir. There isn't.
(The lecture theatre becomes very quiet with this turn of events.)
Student : Sir, you can have lots of heat, even more heat, superheat, mega heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat. But we don't have anything called cold. We can hit 458 degrees below zero which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as cold. Cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it.
(There is pin-drop silence in the lecture theatre.)
Student : What about darkness, Professor? Is there such a thing as darkness?
Prof: Yes. What is night if there isn't darkness?
Student : You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is the absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing light. But if you have no light constantly, you have nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? In reality, darkness isn't. If it were you would be able to make darkness darker, wouldn't you?
Prof: So what is the point you are making, young man?
Student : Sir, my point is your philosophical premise is flawed.
Prof: Flawed? Can you explain how?
Student : Sir, you are working on the premise of duality. You argue there is life and then there is death, a good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even explain a thought. It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the opposite of life: just the absence of it. Now tell me, Professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved from a monkey?
Prof: If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, yes, of course, I do.
Student : Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?
(The Professor shakes his head with a smile, beginning to realize where the argument is going.)
Student : Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavour, are you not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you not a scientist but a preacher?
(The class is in uproar.)
Student : Is there anyone in the class who has ever seen the Professor's brain?
(The class breaks out into laughter.)
Student : Is there anyone here who has ever heard the Professor's brain, felt it, touched or smelt it? No one appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have no brain, sir. With all due respect, sir, how do we then trust your lectures, sir?
(The room is silent. The professor stares at the student, his face unfathomable.)
Prof: I guess you'll have to take them on faith, son.
Student : That is it sir.. The link between man & god is FAITH. That is all that keeps things moving & alive.
**
The Omen stands up....
Omen : if i had hit you once when you came close to me, 2 years ago.... would you mind standing beside me?
Student : No.. it was long ago
Omen :if i hit you every time you come close to me and repeated this 40 times.... will you come close to me?
Student : No
Omen : Do you believe in evolution?
(Student looks uncomfortable)
Student : ....... No
Omen : then why does your behaviour evolve? why does it change with respect to the situation? is God guiding your behaviour or are my fists guiding it?
(Student is silent... the class is silent again)
Omen : Yes....i HAVE observed evolution with my own eyes... when a normal rat is put in pitch black darkness for 2 years and then taken out.. it is effectively blind... when a person eats antibiotics, many bacteria in his intestines die and he suffers from upset stomach... the body grew used to (evolved to) accomodate the bacteria and to use it... the same bacteria in another animal can make it ill.. or even kill it...
(Professor nods approvingly)
Omen : Does Darkness exist?.. hmm?
Student : No it does not.. i just proved that... it is the absence of light.
Omen : What is Vacuum?
Student : (falters) Nothingness.......
Omen : how about 'the absence of matter'?......would you mind if i exposed you to total Vacuum... since you obviously dont believe in things which dont exist?
(Student is silent... the class grins)
Omen : does the fact that vacuum is Nothing.... change the fact that it has intense physical properties?
Student : (quietly) No...
Omen : Does the fact that darkness 'not exist' (as you claim)... mean that it does not affect the eyesight of the rat?
Student : No.....
Omen : The Absence of something which DOES exist, lends to it a presence of its own... which means that it may not be anything tangible.. but if the 'presence' of the 'existing object' decreases or goes away.... it WILL be detected... YOU will be able to feel/hear/see/taste/smell this in SOME way or another... and can you feel something that doesnt exist?
Student : No......
Omen : ... which means that any absence of a body/property can be classified as something which can be detected and thus gives it the right to nomenclature... (i.e.- you can name such a state of absence)....such as your bold exclamations of super-heat, white-heat, low-heat........ and NO-heat.... The argument is limited by the language we speak in.... and English has just created a word for no-heat.... or low-heat... on a relative scale... just like the scale YOU used... degrees fahrenheit... is completely relative... cold could correspond to 30°F on your scale... colder could correspont to 0°F on your scale... so on.... do you have any argument against that??
(Student is silent... the class waits..)
Omen : But does your god have either presence OR absence??? Can you feel/hear/see/taste/smell when he turns away? when he decreases or goes away? or can you feel/../../../.. his presence in any tangble way that specifies that it is god that your sense organs percieve?
Student (boldly) : i can see God when i see spring... i smell him in the flowers... i hear him in the birds songs... i taste him in the fresh-water spring... i feel him when i touch the damp soil... and in the cold harsh winters... i can feel the absence of all those things... now tell me does God exist?
Omen (smiling simply) : Art thou a Pagan?
Student (aghast) : What!!? I am a Christian!!!
Omen (still smiling) : do you know that nature worship is a Pagan trait? an early form of the worship of Science in all its aspects... the chemicals that stimulate your sense organs of smell and taste... the subtle physics of waves - for sound and light... and the presence of Matter to touch.... it has nothing to do with Faith whatsoever... it is instead, the quest to reveal the workings of the most complex biomachineries that we can find... our own ecosystem... and our universe... not by pointing to beings that do not exist or have any effect whatsoever... but to physics, chemistry, mathematics and biology working together.
(the class breaks into applause)
Omen : God, my friend, is Your creation.... not the other way around.... you create him the way a lonely child makes up imaginary playmates.... and Your God is totally different from someone else's god... they are tailored to your own needs... and the reason God doesnt exist Even if EVERY man has Faith... is because your god can never be the same as someone else's god... and is true to you and you alone...
Professor : Faith is a matter of how seriously you take your 'imaginary friend'... when people start having visions of "god" talking to them in their dreams... i would say they are bordering schizophrenia where they cannot distingush the border between their 'imaginary' and 'real' worlds.
(Student walks out of class)
Professor : and so with Omen's help... we have established that Faith IS a problem for science.... as we could see from the young man there who doesnt really like the idea of worshipping nature and the physical world... but an imaginary "God" instead. Thank you my class... see you tomorrow at noon!
ah.. i should write literary flame-wars.... but then the church would burn all my books anyway....
"Religion is an archaic form of government and will always be a tool to control and govern....
and as in most governments... corruption is as common as bacteria.........
and it should be assumed as part of the deal" ~ discourses of the Hellspawn
posted by Hellspawn~ The Ωmen at 7:17 PM
15 Comments:
I think the original story is flawed. The existence of God /is/ faith (as Soren Kierkegaard would say). The profs. questions try to prove/disprove the existence of God on logical grounds and the kid tries to refute his arguments on the same grounds.
And this is why I tend to stay as far from religious debate as possible. Political discussion on the other hand....
... Are totally pointless so I stay away from them too. ;)
for those of you who find reasons to stay away from politics or religion - reminds me of the pigeon who closes it's eyes when the cat comes to eat it. if you are going to close your eyes to reality, how will you ever manage to deal with issues which influence your lives even without your knowing. politics influences how much you pay for the gas in your car whether u like it or not or how much money you will make as an entrepreneur in the near future.......escapism from real life does not take you anywhere.......think about it !!!!!!
Interesting point Anonymous!..
yes.. i agree with you... and religious and political debate do tend to rock the boat and rub people the wrong way.. but then, thats the only way to ensure that people think about such issues and dont ignore them!
the ability to carry out an argument and even attempt to make your point, using various logical/example-based techniques is proof of the ability to think and reason.
Noufal n Sam.. comments appreciated! =) thanks guys.. nice 2 know ppl r readin my stuff
Btw... i encourage ppl to use their names on the site and "sign" at the end of their posts... especially if u dont have a blogger account....at least a nickname or some way to adress you in my replies as there may be more than one anonymous comment to a message.
thanks guys
Ah, I've heard that before-- have you seen the one Christians always use where the atheist professor attempts to disprove God by dropping a piece of chalk?
Your example of evolution in action is flawed, by the way-- evolution changes the genetic aspects of species rather than individuals. Unfit individuals die whereas more well-adapted individuals survive and reproduce, producing net changes in the genes of the population or species.
Individual behaviors are seperate from evolutionary process unless they are due to underlying genetic causes, i.e. if I lift weights every day of my life, my children will not become better weightlifters at birth. If you placed a population of rats in a pitch-black room and left them alone for generations, however, those rats best able to survive in darkness would probably propogate better than those who could not, but an individual rat would not of itself change its genetic material in response to outside stimuli.
Of course, the original example of evolution is also flawed, as humans and monkeys evolved from a common ancestor rather than humans evolving from monkeys. Just different branches on the tree o' life.
As for evolution in action, the Darwin Awards. :)
unfortunately for us.... only the mountains and the earth itself could witness evolution and "live to tell the tale".... we are but sparks with respect to the time scale of evolution.... so any person witnessing evolution would have to live very long indeed... so i choose the examples that we can see.... and i would like to say here that behaviour mimics evolution very closely and adaptation in a person or in a species is adaptation.... irrespective of time period or area of effect.
biology is unfortunately a slow and cumbersome process and for a repeated behavioural pattern to start having an effect of genetics will take eons.
if you can find me a suitable example which can be both convincing and at the same time... practically demonstrable... i will applaud you and will henceforth restructure my "flawed" arguments with greater care.
my examples were chosen to demonstrate evolution to a person who did not believe in science itself....
WHY would he believe some 'nonsensical' Carbon-dating of bones?... and he could just argue that god created some different animals which looked similar!.. or he put bones in the soil for his own reasons.....maybe they were the bones he discarded when he was trying to make the perfect structure of great Adam and thus.. once he achieved the perfect design.. we have all looked alike since then!
or maybe he put bones there to make us believe in evolution while he silently did the work and therefore he must be "humble" too!!
and he still created the earth in seven days and put Adam on the earth to produce us!!!...
how do you plan on refuting these arguments? pitching belief against belief?... you would argue for centuries then.... ha....
man unfortunately trusts sight and his other 4 senses, more than his own mind and reasoning... so sometimes it becomes drastically necessary to prove it to him.
i would also remind you of galelio's fate at the hands of the people whos beliefs he challenged by giving them only theoretical proof.... and until the men saw it themselves much much later... his name was used as a curse.... and i doubt the poor wise man was even given a decent burial.
Furthermore... i would like to clarify a point
that even if ONE person/creature's genes changed enough to be passed down the reproductive line.... it would be regarded as evolution... because it doesnt matter whether 10 monkeys changed to men... 10 thousand... or all of them. so if a single rat was placed in a controlled environment... and all its offspring... and their entire genetic line was kept in the same conditions... they would invariably adapt to it and at some point along the line they would gradually change even if every single other member of their species remained the same...
anyhow...
the challenge still stands..
if a suitable enough example can be found... i will add a note to the above posting and give you full credit for finding a much (or even decently) better example than mine.
"Thrust and parry... good armor and big swords are often more of a hinderance than an advantage. Quick reflexes and light blades can be used to deliver a far more efficient and graceful coup-de-grace" ~ swordmasters of the Hellspawn
when a person eats antibiotics, many bacteria in his intestines die and he suffers from upset stomach... the body grew used to (evolved to) accomodate the bacteria and to use it... the same bacteria in another animal can make it ill.. or even kill it...
just my two cents:
there are bacteria in our intestines but don't make us ill. even in our mouths, genitals, skin etc. these are what you call "normal flora". but if those affect other animals, they can kill. because it's not a part of their normal flora. among other things, there's also the topic of "parasites" and kind of hosts: intermediate hosts, definitive hosts, dead-end hosts, accidental hosts. if you ingest a parasite that has humans as a dead-end host, it will die. if the human is the intermediate host of that certain parasite, it will develop only until its infective stage, and it will find its way out of the human, and find its definitive host and cause infection. and let me tell you, not all will cause you symptoms. there are people who are infected but are asymptomatic.
you say the body grew to acommodate the bacteria, because if you take in antibiotic, you have upset stomach. you attribute upset stomach to the death of the bacteria?
have you studied pharmacology? have you heard of adverse effects of drugs? tetracycline for example is an indication for typhoid fever. an adverse effect is browning of the teeth. does that mean that the teeth has gotten used to having the bacteria in the body that it became brown when the bacteria were killed by the antibiotic?
also, there are different antibiotics for different bacteria. because bacteria have many strains. there's a haemophilus strain that is sensitive to a certain antiobiotic, but a different haemophilus strain will be resistant to the same antibiotic. that is why there are a lot of drugs available. have you thought of that?
if the body grew to acommodate the bacteria, why do we have drugs then? why do we treat people if our body can acommodate the bacteria then? why would people continue to research on how to improve health care, if our body can acommodate bacteria that can cause us illnesses? why are there chronic illnesses? if you have tuberculosis and you leave it untreated, why do you still have tuberculosis after many years, if your body will get used to it? if the body can acommodate, or as you put it "EVOLVED TO" the bacteria and use it, would you mind getting infected with Neisseria meningitidis? Let's see if your body can evolve to that. :)
before you thrash God and use science as your defense, get your facts straight first before you talk so you won't look incredibly stupid. :)
~md
ok this is getting incredibly annoying..
Md.... your points are really idiotic and make you look really stupid.. but then i like that... so go ahead and make yourself look like a retard... here ill help you by making your long soliloquy moot.
did i ever say that you shouldnt take your damn drugs? and that you are used to ALL the craploads of viruses and bacteria around? NO.
did i say that it's POSSIBLE for the human body to evolve to ALL forms of bacteria? NO.
just because i said that antibiotics kill bacteria in your intestines, does that mean that ANY effect the chemicals/substances have, in your body, will be caused due to bacteria being removed? NO!
the human body hasnt evolved to lots of bacteria around... whats more.. it probably CANT..
but we DEFINITELY are used to the intestenial bacteria and in fact.. depend on them...
another FACT is that if you dont know that it IS antibiotics that kill intestinial bacteria then youre incredibly bold to come here and teach me about pharmacology.. go read your textbooks again... i knew this in 6th grade.
so Md... since your body obviously is too pure to contain dirty bacteria... lets give you lots of all the types of antibiotics to kill all the bacteria in you.... and watch you die painfully.
so from today onwards... dont try to brush off your supposed "knowledge" about different types of bacteria and drugs on others...
to formally respond to your dumb questions..
"you say the body grew to acommodate the bacteria, because if you take in antibiotic, you have upset stomach. you attribute upset stomach to the death of the bacteria?"...
YES. learn to read more carefully (including your textbooks)
"tetracycline for example is an indication for typhoid fever. an adverse effect is browning of the teeth. does that mean that the teeth has gotten used to having the bacteria in the body that it became brown when the bacteria were killed by the antibiotic?"...
NO.. DUH... and as I explained above, killing bacteria may not be the only effect of the chemicals.... and im assuming you mean "Medication" or "Prescription".. not "indication".. semantics my friend.. semantics
"also, there are different antibiotics for different bacteria. because bacteria have many strains..... that is why there are a lot of drugs available. have you thought of that?
if the body grew to acommodate the bacteria, why do we have drugs then?"...
DUHHH.. thats why im writing about INTESTINIAL bacteria... becuase it is an example of something we are used to.
"would you mind getting infected with Neisseria meningitidis? Let's see if your body can evolve to that :)"...
never mind.. i think you should be done making a fool of yourself now and feeling proud about it...
some more arbitrary facts for my All-Knowledgable-Friend here...
only 3-4% bacteria are considered 'harmful'... which means that our body may have actually even adapted to a Large MAJORITY of the bacteria.
i also want you to know that your comment was extremely boring owing to all the unnecessary technical inforation you tried to show off... i didnt include a lot of those facts simply because i want people to read the post and not sleep through it... learn how to write well enough to capture SOME MIINIMAL interst at least...
here are your two cents back... go buy youself some candy and run along.... or take them and stick them in your ears so that you dont hear me laughing at you...
just to add a nice touch to this mockery..
"before you thrash God and use science as your defense, get your facts straight first before you talk so you won't look incredibly stupid. :)"... throws back his head and laughs...
i hope there wont be more people attempting to make me "look stupid".. lol.
Why do these representatives of "God's side" INSIST on making moot points? couldnt God find better fighters? i enjoy a good contest... a battle of wits... thrust and parry... not a one sided thing where i can decapitate the other with one swing of my sword...
none of the points this "enlightened one" stated, could have budged the rest of my argument about Faith and Science... EVEN IF md was right... all that was disproven was ONE example... the next gladiator better try to counter my whole damn argument..
"Condemn me... i shall bask in your wrath" ~ sayings of the Hellspawn
Jesus Loves you till brother....God bless
A couple of things:
1) You use an example of adaptation in place of an example of evolution. In your later comments you then state that you did this as a demonstration of evolution since "seeing" evolution is impossible. If this is the case then your explanation is rendered moot with regards to the student...because the student was making the specific point that we have limited senses. So your explanation actually reinforces the student's point instead of refuting it.
2) You then create a lot of verbiage to prove that the absence of something can have characteristics and thus is justified as being labeled as an object. True enough, but that doesn't necessarily label the absent state as the opposite state (duality - absence of good is not evil, it is just absent). I'm not saying that the absent state can't be the opposite (you are correct that the absence of light, darkness, is the opposite state of light...BUT ONLY from the point of view of the observer - a rather limited definition) but here you simply didn't disprove the students point about duality - you just arrogantly make an irrelevant point.
3) Then you insult the student because he cannot sense God. The student struggles to make some point about "seeing" God in the spring...doubtful that the student will make this point since the student's main point is that we have limited senses and faith is part of being a human being.
4) Finally you make a pronunciation that paganism is an attempt to use science to understand the universe. hmmmm...not even sure where to begin here.
5) Then you proclaim that God is made up...the class breaks into applause! (really? why?). Why is God made up? He may certainly be made up, but you have gone absolutely nowhere towards proving it.
Science has yet to disprove God. Some things in Science may even point towards God. Can science "see" God? For example, the law of entropy states that everything in the universe decays through entropy. It is what is responsible for the arrow of time and why we see time as progressing to the future. If all decays, then there must have been a point of perfect "non-decay" from which entropy began (this is a variation on St. Thomas Aquinas's argument). This point is seen as the instant before the big-bang. Are we seeing God here?
There are flaws in the both the professors and the students arguments here. I just think you did a poor job in refuting the student.
Interesting debate; however, if I were the student, I would have argued that although I cannot see God -- the flowers, trees, etc. are His creations, not Him -- I can FEEL God. Just as one cannot see the wind, yet can FEEL it blow, and thus knows it is there, and it is real. Just because the professor has never stepped out of the humid cave of his mind to feel the wind does not prove it doesn't exist. It only demonstrates his lack of faith. Most of us have little faith or are running on the fumes of faith, but the professor is bone dry. Those who lack a particular thing they wish they had -- regardless of what it is -- tend to despise those who have what is missing in their own lives, so they dispell it, treat it as "myth" or "undesirable" or "tainted". The bottom line is: What a man believes God is or is not does not change or effect God. So go on thinking what you will.
for the person who commented before Remona...
1) i state that adaptation IS a form of evolution.
i also said that evolution is extremely difficult to see... but definitely not impossible.
2) you have just made some sort of blank accusation that i cant seem to grasp.. but still.. ill try to clarify.
i frankly never claimed it was the opposite.. it is just our nomenclature... our language that is confining us. If we can have degrees of goodness just like we have degrees of illumination (Candelas) or temperature (Celcius/Farenheit), then we could simply be more objective and state what level some quality/quantity was at. The fact remains.. its effects can still be noticed in SOME way.
At this point i also want to address what Remona said... as i said before... Winter doesnt come whenever your God goes away from us does it? the fresh-water springs dont dry out when God abandons us.. do they? then your god has no noticeable effect on the world does he?
These perceptions also change for every second man on earth...
The desert-nomads would consider it a blessing when theres a single cloudy day, but the average tanning american would consider it a bane. But if both of them are put in the vacuum chamber, they BOTH feel the same effect..
So the Vacuum is the absence of matter and it has some definite and observable properties.... but your "God" cant really be defined as a presence or absence of anything because he varies from person to person and apparently he can be 'observed' in the sunlight, warmth, chirping birds etc. for One person.... and in the coolness, the shade, and heavy-metal for another...
now please do tell me.. which one is the presence of God and which one is an indication of his absence?
-point proved-
3) I "??insult??" (considering i didnt really question whether he had a brain or anything, that accusation is.. laughable)
... all i did was ask him simple, yes/no type questions!
4) well if you dont know anything about Paganism, i guess you should go look it up! The basic worship of elementals: fire, earth, water, air and "ether" has undergone many changes... it has adapted hand-in-hand with science.
In fact.. "ether" was dropped when it was established that there was no such thing.
theres lots more, but youre obviously not too well informed on this, so i suggest you read up a bit before you even IMAGINE that youre "sure where to begin here".
5) ummmm... i just did... for the 10th time on this damn post.
about your dumb point of the 'chaos theory' or 'law of entropy'... (slams forehead against keyboard: BANG BANG BANG)
you christians cant imagine ANYTHING that isnt linear can you?
I mean.. you DO realise that there are asymptotes on graphs and that entropy is NOT linear? it is EXPONENTIAL. which means there was always SOME entropy... and that increased to some multiple of itself (lets say X) and then that went to X^2.. and so on...
I really dont get it... how can YOU... you people who preach about ETERNAL PEACE and ETERNAL HELL and ETERNAL this and that... how can YOU not understand that very concept of ETERNITY????
Couldnt the universe ALWAYS have existed?
agh... idiots.
and i want to also send out a big SMACK ACROSS THE FACE to the moron who said this:
"Jesus Loves you till [little?] brother....God bless"
there are some THICK people out there. anyway... im glad that the last two people did raise (relatively) intelligent points and tried to argue logically.
oh well... at least some of them have brains.
~King Om3n
Interesting article, added his blog to Favorites
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